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jumps when playing sound

 
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Pamal



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:32 am    Post subject: jumps when playing sound Reply with quote

Hello,

First, I want to say that I'm using MsPinky for several years, it works really good for me, and I love the possibility to modify the maxi-patch in max. Thanks for all this big work.

Recently, I begin a new theater project with jazz musicians. Everything worked good ( in rehearsal) but one problem appear during the first performance:
Some jumps occurred to a rhythmic loop (file duration : 5-10 second), and a another one later. It was just 3 little jumps but they were dramatic for the musicians who were playing with, and also for the audience.

I thought about sub bass, and the other musicians who played louder than for the rehearsals. The sound engineer install 2 thin camping-matress (each about 6mm) under the turntables; and I've also replaced my cartridges, and use a set of new Ms vinyls. I try put also the low-cut active on the phono preamp.
We played 4 times in this hall, and it happened again: 1 times during the 2nd and 3rd, and 2 times during the 4th.

I think the cartridge maybe picked up sound parasites. I observe for example how the trumpet move position of the playbar when the vinyl is stopped. Then we try some hard situations with trumpet playing near the cartridge, and it alters the precision but don't make brutal jumps when vinyl is playing. We also tried 5 minutes with sub frequency on high level but it didn't happen for this short period.

We play next time at the beginning of january, and for the moment I'm not relaxed about this point. When I test it at home, everything is ok.
Did you see some similar problems with this rare random jumps? Is there better cartridges to use or other advice, adjustment on vinyl control (file re-cue?)?

thanks for the help.

Pamal.


system: osX, 10.6.8
max/msp 5.1.8 (since today on max6)
Maxi patch AO 3.7.6
1 echo audiofire 12
2 artcessories DeeJay pro2
2 mkII sl1200,
2 Shure M-44-7,
1 rane TTM56.

relative mode.
Signal Pow Tresh: -32.db
Cutoff Sharpness: 1.4
vinyl : gen 4th ; velocity only
pre roll : 40
file re-cue treshold: 1.
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dlpinkstah
Site Admin


Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1075

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are using relative mode, and not using the position information of the vinyl at all, and you say this problem only occurs when you're playing live, then I suspect that the power supply in the live venue is somehow corrupted which could cause a momentary malfunction of your soundcard and/or computer. I suggest that you make sure that when you play live you electronically isolate your computer, soundcard, turntables, etc from any lighting systems or large amplifiers in the venue. When lights and power amplifiers are on the same electrical circuit as your computer it could cause voltage surges which could affect your computer and/or soundcard. So just try using a high quality surge protector/ voltage regulator.
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Pamal



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the answer.
In this theater, light supply and sound supply were separate, but yes you're certainly right about the electrical issue (I was focusing on other parasites).
So I'll try to protect my system against that. Is, for example, products like the "PHONIC PPC 9000 E" a good solution, or is it better to use a 'UPS' like the ones from MGE-EATON.
I'll try also to use more absolute mode, specially in the case of rythmic loop.
+
Pamal.
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dlpinkstah
Site Admin


Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1075

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure which product would be the best. I guess try the least expensive first to see if that helps.

Re: absolute vs. relative mode. I'd say stick with relative mode if you don't really need the absolute mode. The reason is that if your needle does skip in relative mode there won't be much of an interruption in the sound. But if you're using absolute mode and the needle skips over-- it will obviously cause the sound to skip over as well! So relative mode should be "more robust" to needle disturbances.
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Pamal



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, I'll test one or both during the next month and see what happen.

re: I stay in relative mode (I had misunderstood .... )

+p
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dlpinkstah
Site Admin


Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1075

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing that could be causing skips in the sound is if you are using Ableton Live with many different clips playing simultaneously with Ms Pinky, where you are either using Ms Pinky in Ableton as a VST or Max For Live, or externally with the Maxi-Patch application. The cause of skips could be that your hard drive is too slow to keep fetching data from many different sound files at once. However, sound skipping due to this hard-drive data fetching overload would be equally likely to occur at home or in your live performance.
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Pamal



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...ok
But effectively, everything works good at home and I'm only using Maxi-Patch and some home made effects built in max. In fact I'm more interested with this way of patching, even if I have to build other things that are already implemented in Live. But, as an ex-user, I also recognize the power of Live.
*p
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Pamal



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For January, the sound engineer brought me an UPS with 'online' spec and 15 minutes autonomy; All the gears are plugged on it (4 outputs). Everything works good now about this micro jumps; I just observe one time a slowdown in a little rythmic loop. I've got the art dee jay phono preamp, and maybe I'll try the Rolls or another Sonifex...(?)

I also try Ms with Max 6; and it's like my system is slower than with max 5 (maybe because of better calculation)... and cpu so high. Then I've got to put bigger vector size, and this has a cost on latency....
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